The need for speed.

[Murray]

Just another little example of leaders and followers was one particular young bird race last year in our club. The Staddons were racing very well getting multiple drops with 10/15 birds before anyone else. Then we had a stiff race. They had 3 together and took the first 3. But the instead of the rest dropping closely behind they had to wait over an hour for another one. Although a little behind their first 3 I had most of mine by the time they got their 4th. Were these first 3 the leaders? The ones that had been bring the rest home and when it got a bit tough the “followers” followed the wrong ones? Who knows.

I think sometimes you just get some birds that find a line and stick to it regardless of what the rest of the flock do, sometimes you might a bird that gets a line from one particular race point and always scores form that one point. I expect you remember Dads old Christchurch pigeon Andy (I think he was called "The Loner") who topped the club and Fed every time it went there and John Carpenter's "Hit" man who every time John sent him to Leamington would top the Fed !!
I had one young hen this year who from the first 2 races (Bovingdon) was my first bird winning the Club on the second occasion, both times she came in from, what I believe to be the perfect direction for me to score in the club, out of the North, North East. After those two races she did absolutely nothing so any line she'd found or leadership qualities she had just disappeared Im guessing that from those two races she got in with the lead batch and had a lucky break out, It will be interesting to see how she performs as a yearling now.

The Loner was dads red grizzle sion hen that won the London and South Coast Combine from Bergerac 414 miles Trev. I think she disappeared as a youngster returning the following spring then sent to Bergerac that same year. The cock that used to win Christchurch, which was only 60 odd miles, every time he went, usually sent driving, was a blue cock. Can’t remember his breeding but he was later used as dads time bird that was used each week back then to carry a message from the secretary’s loft containing the liberation news of that weeks race. I think his ring number ended in 64.
The one of John Carpenter was called Hit Man and was a grizzle cock that John brought from Massarella out of Stan the Man. A Kirkpatrick that was supposed to be a distance bird, but as you say used to top the fed from Leamington around 115 miles.

That's an interesting thing, Andy, sometimes you get one that is supposed to be distance bred, but goes very fast, and much more rarely, one that is bred for speed and stays all day.
Same with the horses. Many years ago when I was an apprentice, my boss bought a yearling filly by an English horse who had won a prestigious 2 mile Handicap. Her mother was bred to stay too. Yet I won four 2 year old races in a row on the filly, and she broke the New Zealand record for 5 furlongs.
Conversely, about the same time there was an old sprinter named Sony, who was tried jumping, and won major steeplechases going 3 miles or more, in knee deep mud!
I had a horse once, He was by a stallion that was only very moderately successful. His mother's pedigree was so poor it only took up half the page. Yet he was a big strong horse, who won 8 races. One day when he had beaten a hot favorite, the other trainer angrily said to me, "How can that horse be any good? He's got no pedigree!
"No" I replied, "But he doesn't know that".

[Andy]

I think sometimes you just get some birds that find a line and stick to it regardless of what the rest of the flock do, sometimes you might a bird that gets a line from one particular race point and always scores form that one point. I expect you remember Dads old Christchurch pigeon Andy (I think he was called "The Loner") who topped the club and Fed every time it went there and John Carpenter's "Hit" man who every time John sent him to Leamington would top the Fed !!
I had one young hen this year who from the first 2 races (Bovingdon) was my first bird winning the Club on the second occasion, both times she came in from, what I believe to be the perfect direction for me to score in the club, out of the North, North East. After those two races she did absolutely nothing so any line she'd found or leadership qualities she had just disappeared Im guessing that from those two races she got in with the lead batch and had a lucky break out, It will be interesting to see how she performs as a yearling now.

The Loner was dads red grizzle sion hen that won the London and South Coast Combine from Bergerac 414 miles Trev. I think she disappeared as a youngster returning the following spring then sent to Bergerac that same year. The cock that used to win Christchurch, which was only 60 odd miles, every time he went, usually sent driving, was a blue cock. Can’t remember his breeding but he was later used as dads time bird that was used each week back then to carry a message from the secretary’s loft containing the liberation news of that weeks race. I think his ring number ended in 64.
The one of John Carpenter was called Hit Man and was a grizzle cock that John brought from Massarella out of Stan the Man. A Kirkpatrick that was supposed to be a distance bird, but as you say used to top the fed from Leamington around 115 miles.

That's an interesting thing, Andy, sometimes you get one that is supposed to be distance bred, but goes very fast, and much more rarely, one that is bred for speed and stays all day.
Same with the horses. Many years ago when I was an apprentice, my boss bought a yearling filly by an English horse who had won a prestigious 2 mile Handicap. Her mother was bred to stay too. Yet I won four 2 year old races in a row on the filly, and she broke the New Zealand record for 5 furlongs.
Conversely, about the same time there was an old sprinter named Sony, who was tried jumping, and won major steeplechases going 3 miles or more, in knee deep mud!
I had a horse once, He was by a stallion that was only very moderately successful. His mother's pedigree was so poor it only took up half the page. Yet he was a big strong horse, who won 8 races. One day when he had beaten a hot favorite, the other trainer angrily said to me, "How can that horse be any good? He's got no pedigree!
"No" I replied, "But he doesn't know that".

Very interesting about the horses Murray. As you say pedigrees don’t win races. Most of my best pigeons have come from chance matings with only my pedigree.

[Murray]

Yep, and how they look doesn't always matter either.
One year I had a young mealy cock, he was half Staf Van Reet and half my old kiwi family. It was an absolutely perfect pigeon. Being very proud of him i invited several very successful flyers to see him. To a man they were very complimentary.
The pigeon had all the tosses out to 40 miles, went to the first race at 83 miles, and was never seen again.
It was a show pony.
I don't care what they look like, they all have to be trained. The best pigeon i have ever had was a dark chequer, a bit long cast and not a happy pigeon.
Every pigeon in the loft must be trained, because you never know which one might be the champion you have been looking for.

[Trev]

I think sometimes you just get some birds that find a line and stick to it regardless of what the rest of the flock do, sometimes you might a bird that gets a line from one particular race point and always scores form that one point. I expect you remember Dads old Christchurch pigeon Andy (I think he was called "The Loner") who topped the club and Fed every time it went there and John Carpenter's "Hit" man who every time John sent him to Leamington would top the Fed !!
I had one young hen this year who from the first 2 races (Bovingdon) was my first bird winning the Club on the second occasion, both times she came in from, what I believe to be the perfect direction for me to score in the club, out of the North, North East. After those two races she did absolutely nothing so any line she'd found or leadership qualities she had just disappeared Im guessing that from those two races she got in with the lead batch and had a lucky break out, It will be interesting to see how she performs as a yearling now.

The Loner was dads red grizzle sion hen that won the London and South Coast Combine from Bergerac 414 miles Trev. I think she disappeared as a youngster returning the following spring then sent to Bergerac that same year. The cock that used to win Christchurch, which was only 60 odd miles, every time he went, usually sent driving, was a blue cock. Can’t remember his breeding but he was later used as dads time bird that was used each week back then to carry a message from the secretary’s loft containing the liberation news of that weeks race. I think his ring number ended in 64.
The one of John Carpenter was called Hit Man and was a grizzle cock that John brought from Massarella out of Stan the Man. A Kirkpatrick that was supposed to be a distance bird, but as you say used to top the fed from Leamington around 115 miles.

That's an interesting thing, Andy, sometimes you get one that is supposed to be distance bred, but goes very fast, and much more rarely, one that is bred for speed and stays all day.
Same with the horses. Many years ago when I was an apprentice, my boss bought a yearling filly by an English horse who had won a prestigious 2 mile Handicap. Her mother was bred to stay too. Yet I won four 2 year old races in a row on the filly, and she broke the New Zealand record for 5 furlongs.
Conversely, about the same time there was an old sprinter named Sony, who was tried jumping, and won major steeplechases going 3 miles or more, in knee deep mud!
I had a horse once, He was by a stallion that was only very moderately successful. His mother's pedigree was so poor it only took up half the page. Yet he was a big strong horse, who won 8 races. One day when he had beaten a hot favorite, the other trainer angrily said to me, "How can that horse be any good? He's got no pedigree!
"No" I replied, "But he doesn't know that".

Interesting post and a nice little story again Muzza, as you say pedigrees are a good place to start but don't guarantee champions. Who knows what makes a pairing click, obviously genetics play a massive part in this but a pair either gel or they don't and as you this is often pure chance. You only have to look at top athletes and sportsmen, the champions don't very often produce offspring who become champions and like wise these champions rarely come from long lines of champion parents, let's face it all of our modern day champion pigeons only come from the humble rock dove !!!

[Devo1956]

In all the times of birds not only being involved in a sport. there was much more going on and it goes back many years. Some birds were used to carry messages back, to different places and important ones too. So the need for speed goes back in history many years ago.

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/na ... ners-world

[Andy]

In all the times of birds not only being involved in a sport. there was much more going on and it goes back many years. Some birds were used to carry messages back, to different places and important ones too. So the need for speed goes back in history many years ago.

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/na ... ners-world

A lovely piece Devo. Thank you for putting it up.

[Andy]

Yep, and how they look doesn't always matter either.
One year I had a young mealy cock, he was half Staf Van Reet and half my old kiwi family. It was an absolutely perfect pigeon. Being very proud of him i invited several very successful flyers to see him. To a man they were very complimentary.
The pigeon had all the tosses out to 40 miles, went to the first race at 83 miles, and was never seen again.
It was a show pony.
I don't care what they look like, they all have to be trained. The best pigeon i have ever had was a dark chequer, a bit long cast and not a happy pigeon.
Every pigeon in the loft must be trained, because you never know which one might be the champion you have been looking for.

Too true Murray. I remember a pair of full sisters I had back in 1989. They were from 2 separate nests. 1 first round, 1 second round. They were a pair of blues. They were out of a blue cock from a fellow club mate that lived near to me. This cock came into my loft and after a few attempts to have him back eventually I kept him as he kept coming back to mine. I paired him to a hen of a mixture of families, as my all were back then. The 2 blue hens in question were very small but compact. Not pigeons that you would keep on looks. They were both multiple winners and 1 also bred winners.
As you say the only way to tell if they are any good is through testing them.