UkPigeonRacing

Murray wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 8:35 am The thing is, let's say I am feeding peas and wheat, and you are feeding a balanced diet with emphasis on fats and energy and things.
I see a big shiny advert, telling me that their 'New product, developed by leading scientists' WILL correct the imbalances in the amino acids in my feed.
That new product must be the best thing ever, if It will 'correct' the feed, regardless of whether you are stuck in 1956 and admiring the beans you got for the season, or in 2024, and trying to decide which race mix to buy.
As the old saying goes, " There's one born ever minute".

Would I be right in thinking that you are saying that the supplement may correct the imbalance in one mix, but would either over or under correct a different mix?

Because the natural amino acids will vary from grain to grain, there is no way to know what exactly you are adding to the mix in order to benefit the system.

I say the same thing when people go mad for multivitamins, unless the body is lacking in any such vitamin, the majority of that will be flushed through the system, and the body will only take in what it is missing!

Winfort Lofts wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 9:56 am

Murray wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 8:35 am The thing is, let's say I am feeding peas and wheat, and you are feeding a balanced diet with emphasis on fats and energy and things.
I see a big shiny advert, telling me that their 'New product, developed by leading scientists' WILL correct the imbalances in the amino acids in my feed.
That new product must be the best thing ever, if It will 'correct' the feed, regardless of whether you are stuck in 1956 and admiring the beans you got for the season, or in 2024, and trying to decide which race mix to buy.
As the old saying goes, " There's one born ever minute".

Would I be right in thinking that you are saying that the supplement may correct the imbalance in one mix, but would either over or under correct a different mix?

Because the natural amino acids will vary from grain to grain, there is no way to know what exactly you are adding to the mix in order to benefit the system.

I say the same thing when people go mad for multivitamins, unless the body is lacking in any such vitamin, the majority of that will be flushed through the system, and the body will only take in what it is missing!

Very true Murray. As you say the body will only use any of these substances if it is need of it. If not they will just be flushed through, like throwing money down the drain.
Same as all the treatments, most are just a waste of money and do little if any good.
As far as the grains are concerned Neil there are many different seeds for different kinds of market. With barely you have grains designed for milling, malting, feed, etc. and different varieties in each sector. The cost of these seeds vary considerably depending on what they are designed for. The most expensive seeds are the ones for milling or malting. These will need the most care during the growing season and will also be dependent on the weather. The cost of production for these are a lot higher as better soil and more pesticides etc are required. Any of these once harvested and not meeting the required grade will be used as animal feed. Some of the cheaper seeds are designed for anima feed. This doesn’t mean that the grains rejected for their intended use aren’t still better quality than the lower rated grains. With the different varieties of grains they will also have a different analysis so impossible to know what the ones used in our mixes are.
This would be the same for any of the grains and not just Barley. I only used that as an example as Neil had mentioned it.
So unless you were to do a scientific analysis of every bag of corn you bought you wouldn’t know what the real analysis is.

NeilA wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:56 am

MIL wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:52 am I was a big believer in this, and so are some very very very very very exceptional fliers

They all use this regularly

https://tollisan.com/produkt/med-tollya ... t/?lang=en

I only ever used that Saturday or Sunday or in the moult to use up the bottle
Do you think it should be used all year due to corn deficiency

Gary would use this all year round, and i'd stick his performances up against anyone

We use tolisan products since we started racing and for us amino acids are the most important product to give. 2x a week day of arival and day after arival you see a rapid recovery through the product in combination with tolisan nano which is protein. Got this method from a 2x Youngster champion from all of germany. And the first year i used his system it worked perfectly winning me almost everything i could have.

MIL wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 4:04 pm

NeilA wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:56 am

MIL wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:52 am I was a big believer in this, and so are some very very very very very exceptional fliers

They all use this regularly

https://tollisan.com/produkt/med-tollya ... t/?lang=en

I only ever used that Saturday or Sunday or in the moult to use up the bottle
Do you think it should be used all year due to corn deficiency

Gary would use this all year round, and i'd stick his performances up against anyone

Cheers Mike

Spieker-Loft wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 4:13 pm We use tolisan products since we started racing and for us amino acids are the most important product to give. 2x a week day of arival and day after arival you see a rapid recovery through the product in combination with tolisan nano which is protein. Got this method from a 2x Youngster champion from all of germany. And the first year i used his system it worked perfectly winning me almost everything i could have.

Do You use the product only when racing ?

These products yes. and its not to many products either we use 4 in total. Tolamin forte, Tolamin nano, Tolisan Dosto 12 , and tolisan quick.
This did absolute wonders for us the past 2 years. Unfortunately my dumb ass changed things up this year because i wanted to try something new and went with rohnfried and it kinda back fired on me because i went into it kinda clueless and without a plan really. But next year its back to tolisan and i will use the same supplyment plan also for my yearlings for the first time to see how that will work out

Spieker-Loft wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 4:25 pm These products yes. and its not to many products either we use 4 in total. Tolamin forte, Tolamin nano, Tolisan Dosto 12 , and tolisan quick.
This did absolute wonders for us the past 2 years. Unfortunately my dumb ass changed things up this year because i wanted to try something new and went with rohnfried and it kinda back fired on me because i went into it kinda clueless and without a plan really. But next year its back to tolisan and i will use the same supplyment plan also for my yearlings for the first time to see how that will work out

I have used forte and fungi and found them good
I wasn’t keen on Kombi as I found my birds didn’t like to drink it but I did use it when I had young bird sickness
Next year I will replace it with DC sluis TDC

Spieker-Loft wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 4:25 pm These products yes. and its not to many products either we use 4 in total. Tolamin forte, Tolamin nano, Tolisan Dosto 12 , and tolisan quick.
This did absolute wonders for us the past 2 years. Unfortunately my dumb ass changed things up this year because i wanted to try something new and went with rohnfried and it kinda back fired on me because i went into it kinda clueless and without a plan really. But next year its back to tolisan and i will use the same supplyment plan also for my yearlings for the first time to see how that will work out

Do these products mix well together?

Spieker-Loft wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 4:25 pm These products yes. and its not to many products either we use 4 in total. Tolamin forte, Tolamin nano, Tolisan Dosto 12 , and tolisan quick.
This did absolute wonders for us the past 2 years. Unfortunately my dumb ass changed things up this year because i wanted to try something new and went with rohnfried and it kinda back fired on me because i went into it kinda clueless and without a plan really. But next year its back to tolisan and i will use the same supplyment plan also for my yearlings for the first time to see how that will work out

I wouldn't worry too much about the unsuccessful swap to something new

A good fancier always tries to improve, whether it be their system and/or new pigeons etc

A good fancier learns from their mistakes and doesn't repeat them


A crap fancier makes mistakes and repeats them because he doesn't realise that he's doing something wrong in the first place

I'm not an idealist I'm performance based

Nothing else matters to me.