UkPigeonRacing

Diamond Dave wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:53 pm Well Andy, I looked into the eyes of my own birds today and tbh I was a little disappointed with what I saw.
It was a lovely sunny day and I looked with a 15X jewellers loupe and I think I made a reasonable assessment based on your basic guidelines.
For most of them, in particular the stock birds, the iris was completely full and there was "no more room in the iris for breeding". Nor was there much in the way of inner circles, let alone any wide ones, and most had quite a lot of shading. There is one or two that could be ok but I only have one hen with an eye that looks anything like the one that was posted which you said is ideal. Is there anything I can do to correct that without buying in new birds.?

Dave, the race basket will tell you more about your birds than you looking into their eyes. As for your stock birds, unless your going to replace them with birds with eyes that you THINK are better. I'd just race the young from them and then just replace the ones that breed nothing.
I'll bet the best National & International flyers aren't filling their stock loft on birds based on eyesign.

Diamond Dave wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 10:16 pm Thanks everyone, I'm not put off at all. I'm not that new to the sport Murray, I've been flying for a good few years now but nothing compared to you guys and I've only really treated it as a hobby up until recently. Most of my birds over the years have been gift birds and I haven't been able to do them justice. I realised about 8 years ago that I want to focus on distance racing after getting a bird home from Barcelona after 7 days (I was like a little kid jumping up and down)and I have spent my time since then trying to "prove" my stock birds.
Over the last couple of years I feel as though I have just got a reliable team together for the task and thats the reason I said I was disappointed with what I saw in the eyes as I felt they would be better than that.

I meant no offence, Dave, I got the impression that you were only fairly recently started.
My apologies.
And I have always just regarded it as a hobby too, although I have a pretty competitive nature.

king wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 11:21 pm

Diamond Dave wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:53 pm Well Andy, I looked into the eyes of my own birds today and tbh I was a little disappointed with what I saw.
It was a lovely sunny day and I looked with a 15X jewellers loupe and I think I made a reasonable assessment based on your basic guidelines.
For most of them, in particular the stock birds, the iris was completely full and there was "no more room in the iris for breeding". Nor was there much in the way of inner circles, let alone any wide ones, and most had quite a lot of shading. There is one or two that could be ok but I only have one hen with an eye that looks anything like the one that was posted which you said is ideal. Is there anything I can do to correct that without buying in new birds.?

Dave, the race basket will tell you more about your birds than you looking into their eyes. As for your stock birds, unless your going to replace them with birds with eyes that you THINK are better. I'd just race the young from them and then just replace the ones that breed nothing.
I'll bet the best National & International flyers aren't filling their stock loft on birds based on eyesign.

I fully agree King.
I wouldn’t suggest using eyesign ahead of testing them at either racing or breeding.
I use it more as a selection tool when pairing pigeons together. I have put the odd pigeon to stock because of its eye without any testing them at racing first but not many over the years.
If your family is based around the old Jan Aarden family they did tend to have quite full irises but of a very rich colour.
For me I enjoy looking at eyesign and will use it. But it’s just another tool in the box.

Dave, the race basket will tell you more about your birds than you looking into their eyes. As for your stock birds, unless your going to replace them with birds with eyes that you THINK are better. I'd just race the young from them and then just replace the ones that breed nothing.
I'll bet the best National & International flyers aren't filling their stock loft on birds based on eyesign.
[/quote]
Thanks King, its only the last couple of years that I have finally bred some reliable birds. They are much the same birds but I think I have found the right pairing for each of them now and they are all producing reliable young birds.
Given that the birds that I have are from non-eyesign people, its likely that they have racing eyes rather than breeding eyes which is why its taken me so long to find the right pairings.
Nonetheless, it is the basket that has got me to this stage aand despite the eyesign, I will keep the same pairs together again this year but I still want to learn more about the eyes in the hope that - as Andy suggests - it might help with future selection rather than taking 4 -years of experimenting.
I am very open to the fact that it might not but like Andy and Neil, I do find it interesting.

Diamond Dave wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 8:51 am Dave, the race basket will tell you more about your birds than you looking into their eyes. As for your stock birds, unless your going to replace them with birds with eyes that you THINK are better. I'd just race the young from them and then just replace the ones that breed nothing.
I'll bet the best National & International flyers aren't filling their stock loft on birds based on eyesign.

Thanks King, its only the last couple of years that I have finally bred some reliable birds. They are much the same birds but I think I have found the right pairing for each of them now and they are all producing reliable young birds.
Given that the birds that I have are from non-eyesign people, its likely that they have racing eyes rather than breeding eyes which is why its taken me so long to find the right pairings.
Nonetheless, it is the basket that has got me to this stage aand despite the eyesign, I will keep the same pairs together again this year but I still want to learn more about the eyes in the hope that - as Andy suggests - it might help with future selection rather than taking 4 -years of experimenting.
I am very open to the fact that it might not but like Andy and Neil, I do find it interesting.
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Dave I think you are falling into the eyesign trap. Don't think racing lofts of 'non-eyesign people' don't have birds with the same eyes as those that believe in it?. I don't believe in it, but have won local eyesign shows over the years both in racing & breeding classes. And although I don't know what the judge is really looking for, I do know which eyes are more likely to get cards.

For anyone interested there is a book on ebay for eyesign @ £2.95 at present just had a quick look at pics and looks useful for anyone trying to learn more about it

title is practical approach to the study of eyesign in pigeons

Do yourself a favour Dave and forget any notion of eyesign

If you follow the old tried and trusted method of "best to best" you'll not go far wrong

Do yourself a favour Dave and if you have an interest whether it helps or not go for it, I have many books here some useful some not unless you look for yourself then you will never know, to many knockers if it is not what they like

Ha -ha, the conflicting opinions one after the other made me laugh.
Like I said, its taken me 4 -6 years to get this team together. I'm certainly not changing it now. Most of that time has been spent waiting in the garden for birds that were never gonna come home. I think things clicked for me this last year and I am looking forward to having a little more success. I have a proper loft now and am also semi-retired, so am going to have a real go at it. If I have a piss-poor season next year I might need to re-evaluate everything but for now, I am still interested in eyesign and will still seek some guidance from Andy (if you dont mind Andy) perhaps privately, so as not to rub everyone else up the wrong way.

Diamond Dave wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2024 10:59 am Ha -ha, the conflicting opinions one after the other made me laugh.
Like I said, its taken me 4 -6 years to get this team together. I'm certainly not changing it now. Most of that time has been spent waiting in the garden for birds that were never gonna come home. I think things clicked for me this last year and I am looking forward to having a little more success. I have a proper loft now and am also semi-retired, so am going to have a real go at it. If I have a piss-poor season next year I might need to re-evaluate everything but for now, I am still interested in eyesign and will still seek some guidance from Andy (if you dont mind Andy) perhaps privately, so as not to rub everyone else up the wrong way.

That’s fine Dave. Happy to do so.