He’s a different level to us Andy I won 6 feds then the next year 5 and thought I cracked it then you see Mikes results and it blows us both away
He’s a natural and unfortunately we are keen and trying our best but thats all we can do
I get 2 or 3 results a year where I know he thinks it’s good like at Darlington the other year I peppered the marking station against top London lofts I think
I had 12 in the top 20 a 200plus miles or when I got 25 home in a min
You know when I got them 25 I had a 18 sec gap between one lot of 12 and the next arrivals and the bugger said why was the others 18 secs behind did you have a gap
I had the 25 before anyone in the fed
NeilA wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:13 pm
He’s a different level to us Andy I won 6 feds then the next year 5 and thought I cracked it then you see Mikes results and it blows us both away
He’s a natural and unfortunately we are keen and trying our best but thats all we can do
I get 2 or 3 results a year where I know he thinks it’s good like at Darlington the other year I peppered the marking station against top London lofts I think
I had 12 in the top 20 a 200plus miles or when I got 25 home in a min
You know when I got them 25 I had a 18 sec gap between one lot of 12 and the next arrivals and the bugger said why was the others 18 secs behind did you have a gap
I had the 25 before anyone in the fed
I don’t think you can put Mike in a different league. Undoubtedly he is a top fanciers and very knowledgeable but that doesn’t make him better than many other fanciers. Honestly no disrespect meant Mike. Neil you, and anyone else, can only beat those that you are racing against and at what options you choose to race in. You’re beating whoever you’re racing against so you’re doing all you can. You can’t win nationals, classics, awards etc if you don’t enter them. That doesn’t make you any less of a flyer.
What I am trying to say is that there are many different ways to succeed in this sport.
Back just enjoying club racing for the time being.
Spot on, Andy!
You can only beat what lines up against you, and you can't improve on winning.
It is easier winning if your opposition are not much good, but some small clubs have very competitive flyers in them. Blokes who have the best pigeons and put the yards into them.
I never turn my nose up at anyone winning a race. You need to be the best in any race to win it.
Greetings from the land down under.
Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for verily, he shall not be disappointed.
Mike, I respect your views but we are different. I certainly wouldn’t knock your way it worked for you.
My results of late aren’t great and I accept that. I’m not making excuses but my situation with all the changes hasn’t helped. I know what I managed to achieve in the past and how I got there. It’s where I would like to be again. When I was a lot younger there were some extremely good fliers in the Worthing club. I was behind them week after week. My aim then was to get to the stage where I was regularly beating them and over time with my way of breeding I became the top flyer in the club. I was herd manager for 12+ years on the Duke of Norfolk’s estate at Arundel and over that time was when I got a team that were winning the sprint races regularly. I then spent 6 years down in Cornwall with basically the same team and within 2 years were again winning regularly. At the end of 1999 I moved to Somerset. I brought my pigeons with me. Over the next 5 years I moved 3 times. I did win a couple of races but didn’t race much either with all the moving. The pigeons were got rid of before the start of 2005.
So now I’m back in the sport I need to get back to the way I was. Yes things have changed since 2005. There was no ETS then. Darkness wasn’t known much about or used the way it is now.
So yes I have a lot of improvements to make. I do think that one main thing is that you need to be settled and be racing from the same home location for a while to get the best out of the pigeons. That’s one thing that I hope for the future.
Back just enjoying club racing for the time being.
Neil - You're very kind - too kind. I've a lengthy reply to type and I'll do it, I just need more time to do it justice than I have now
Club wins mean nothing to me. Nothing. It may sound harsh but I'll give you an example of why I think that way.
Take Phil for instance who I've kinda helped for the last 3 years.
There's a guy who's just packed up who lives in the same village as Phil. Flies in the same Fed as Phil. He's always Highest Prizewinner in his Club and wins the majority of the races at Club level - BUT he doesn't fly in the same Club as Phil.
He'd rather swerve that Club (despite being in the radius) and go to a less competitive club.
He flies 1/2 a mile from Phil. Same village. Same Fed, same liberation. Wins his club most the time, but I can count the amount of times he's beat Phil on one hand and still have fingers and a thumb left over at the end
That's just one reason why I look further than club wins
I'm well aware you can't win the Fed every week.
Many of my best ever performances I wasn't in the top 10 of the Fed against 5,000 birds - but a fair minded individual would look at the result and say "they were good birds on the day"
So that's just one reason why I look further than Club wins
It's easy to pass them off as a "winning family" - but judge them against the rest of the birds you were liberated with to assess how good you actually are. That's where you know you're quality lies
Reading what Mike has to say, in the English environment I reckon he's absolutely right. His record speaks for itself.
If he was to arrive and see the Australian scene, he would wonder what the hell he had struck. I know I did.
What is the very best practice by the very best flyers in one place is likely to end badly in another place.
So you can be a big fish in your pond, but you probably aren't the biggest fish in the sea.
Greetings from the land down under.
Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for verily, he shall not be disappointed.
NeilA wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:13 pm
He’s a different level to us Andy I won 6 feds then the next year 5 and thought I cracked it then you see Mikes results and it blows us both away
He’s a natural and unfortunately we are keen and trying our best but thats all we can do
I get 2 or 3 results a year where I know he thinks it’s good like at Darlington the other year I peppered the marking station against top London lofts I think
I had 12 in the top 20 a 200plus miles or when I got 25 home in a min
You know when I got them 25 I had a 18 sec gap between one lot of 12 and the next arrivals and the bugger said why was the others 18 secs behind did you have a gap
I had the 25 before anyone in the fed
I don’t think you can put Mike in a different league. Undoubtedly he is a top fanciers and very knowledgeable but that doesn’t make him better than many other fanciers. Honestly no disrespect meant Mike. Neil you, and anyone else, can only beat those that you are racing against and at what options you choose to race in. You’re beating whoever you’re racing against so you’re doing all you can. You can’t win nationals, classics, awards etc if you don’t enter them. That doesn’t make you any less of a flyer.
What I am trying to say is that there are many different ways to succeed in this sport.
What was trying to say maybe badly is his level or level of expectation from his team or now he helps Gorden brothers would be higher than mine
If I won the fed then say was 12th fed with the next he would be looking at why the one was out in front of the loft more than thinking great I won the fed which I would think
Now I’m taking notice more than before of the team performance as next week you may need one of them
In 20221-2023 I had 7 really good cocks in my 18 all fed winners and in the drop every week all my cards were won by 11 cocks but 7 were unbelievable i remember thinking any of the 7 could win the fed most weeks i was sending knowing I would be in the top 2/3 in the fed that was with 7 and Mike in his best had 16 like that my 7 showed me you could win with a small team but I thought imagine having double that number and that’s where i would like to get
Unfortunately with 99 per cent yearlings in my team after Bop and giving older cocks away when I was looking at going south in the summer am not sure I have any other than the 2 old cocks of the level
Last edited by NeilA on Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
MIL wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:24 am
Neil - You're very kind - too kind. I've a lengthy reply to type and I'll do it, I just need more time to do it justice than I have now
Club wins mean nothing to me. Nothing. It may sound harsh but I'll give you an example of why I think that way.
Take Phil for instance who I've kinda helped for the last 3 years.
There's a guy who's just packed up who lives in the same village as Phil. Flies in the same Fed as Phil. He's always Highest Prizewinner in his Club and wins the majority of the races at Club level - BUT he doesn't fly in the same Club as Phil.
He'd rather swerve that Club (despite being in the radius) and go to a less competitive club.
He flies 1/2 a mile from Phil. Same village. Same Fed, same liberation. Wins his club most the time, but I can count the amount of times he's beat Phil on one hand and still have fingers and a thumb left over at the end
That's just one reason why I look further than club wins
I'm well aware you can't win the Fed every week.
Many of my best ever performances I wasn't in the top 10 of the Fed against 5,000 birds - but a fair minded individual would look at the result and say "they were good birds on the day"
So that's just one reason why I look further than Club wins
It's easy to pass them off as a "winning family" - but judge them against the rest of the birds you were liberated with to assess how good you actually are. That's where you know you're quality lies
So are you saying then Mike that those who just do club racing or just win at club level because they don’t have the time, money or interest in other types of racing aren’t good flyers. You can’t test your birds against many thousands of birds if the organisation you race in doesn’t send much more than 1,000 birds. Are you saying that those fanciers from up North win their sections in the nationals and classics when only a handful of pigeons are sent aren’t good flyers. You can only beat what you’re flying against. I understand what your saying about the fancier who races from the same town and wins races in his club but is beaten by other birds from the same liberation in the same town, but that is rarely the case. Most fanciers nowadays don’t even have a choice of who they fly with with far less clubs around. There is only a small percentage of the total membership in the country who races in the nationals/classics. Only around 300 members in the early BICC old bird races, far less in the longer races. Only 150 members in the BICC young bird races. How is winning these any better than winning at club level.
I agree that there are a lot of good birds that certainly in the big races are probably far better birds than the winners when you look deeply into the results.
Back just enjoying club racing for the time being.
Andy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:43 pm
Mike, I respect your views but we are different. I certainly wouldn’t knock your way it worked for you.
My results of late aren’t great and I accept that. I’m not making excuses but my situation with all the changes hasn’t helped. I know what I managed to achieve in the past and how I got there. It’s where I would like to be again. When I was a lot younger there were some extremely good fliers in the Worthing club. I was behind them week after week. My aim then was to get to the stage where I was regularly beating them and over time with my way of breeding I became the top flyer in the club. I was herd manager for 12+ years on the Duke of Norfolk’s estate at Arundel and over that time was when I got a team that were winning the sprint races regularly. I then spent 6 years down in Cornwall with basically the same team and within 2 years were again winning regularly. At the end of 1999 I moved to Somerset. I brought my pigeons with me. Over the next 5 years I moved 3 times. I did win a couple of races but didn’t race much either with all the moving. The pigeons were got rid of before the start of 2005.
So now I’m back in the sport I need to get back to the way I was. Yes things have changed since 2005. There was no ETS then. Darkness wasn’t known much about or used the way it is now.
So yes I have a lot of improvements to make. I do think that one main thing is that you need to be settled and be racing from the same home location for a while to get the best out of the pigeons. That’s one thing that I hope for the future.
Did you not race from 2005 to recently Andy ? I had 3 years out 2014 as I had a lot of work I still kept a few pairs though
But I packed up fully 91 - 2008 when I was away working then lived in a flat in London
