Training and peregrine

[NeilA]

What time between small groups ? I try to them to chase so 1 min or is that to close

[NeilA]

What’s people’s thought on training in groups and possible strikes
I let 12 cocks go at 22 miles they were home in 25 mins in a head wind
The next 12 I kept back 7 min instead of my normal 1 min which I do to get them to chase the first lot , due to the head wind and obstacles on route i changed it I though let’s have a gap today

Both cleared and out of sight before I could count to 10 perfect line
Didn’t get a pigeon for 1 hour 10 min from the 2nd then 3 together
I got them spread out over 3 1/2 hours with 2 together at 7.12 last night
Still 2 short in the night
So I new it wasn’t wires as they ones that don’t hit wires just race home the same

So my question is and Goose would be someone with knowledge
Does training in groups with a gap alert the peregrine that thee are possibly more on the way compared to a larger group together
I go in two groups with the idea if they hit one team the other is ok but that could well be wrong and maybe one group getting through would be better

The one thing that we can all agree on Neil is that whenever our birds are in the air (exercise, training or racing) then our birds are at the mercy of BoP and wires. There's always a risk - always.

So, how best to manage that risk?

You "could" tag them. As you know Gary and Niall have a few GPS tags and they use them when training (never racing). The GPS tag has the ability to tell you where the birds are, and potentially what's happened to it (depending on the readings) but it still offers you zero protection against the wires or BoP. Knowing you as I do I'd recommend you not getting GPS tags because it'll mess with your head.

So, you're a fancier (sprint based) that wants and feels that training brings the best out of your birds. Personally I've done it both ways. Before getting married in 2005 I'd train twice a week. After 2005 I didn't train at all because my time was more pressed. The end result was not much difference really - but if you offered me the choice I'd train.

So, to let go in one bunch or not?

Logically you could argue if you have 2 liberations then you double the chance of you getting hit by BoP. There's some merit in that.

On the flip side you could argue that by going in one bunch you're at an increased risk of getting birds in the wires and the fact that if your one kit gets hit by BoP then you've got absolute carnage on your hands because the birds will scatter

So, to me, I'd go in small groups rather than one.

You're dealing with competitors (wires and BoP) that you've zero control over - so manage the risk as best you can

Agree my head would be spinning trying to work out there route
Once I get a race then they will get just one toss a week at 16 miles so cutting down the possibility of attacks

[MIL]

What time between small groups ? I try to them to chase so 1 min or is that to close

What you gotta assess Neil is 2 things really

Firstly, the speed and accuracy in which they clear

Secondly, the time that they're taking to cover the route.

When they're "on the knock" you can go quite close together and that's how they'll arrive home.

This is the great advantage of working closely with Gary and Niall Gordon for the last 20 years. The lads have every training toss logged in the books of where they went, the wind, the weather and how long it took each batch to arrive home to the second. That kind of raw historical data plays to my strengths because data is what I do for a living. I've seen 8 batches liberated 20 seconds apart and that's exactly how they arrive home. When you have them "on the knock" then you can liberate 20-30 secs apart and they'll not catch the other.

At this time of year I'd look to go probably 90 secs apart. The birds will hopefully be clearing instantly but they haven't yet acquired that "race fitness". They can be fit yes, but not race fit. What I mean by this is do you think your birds will be fitter and sharper in another 3-4 weeks when they've had a few races into them? Of course they will be. So for now I'd go 90 secs apart until that sharpness is there

[NeilA]

Cheers Mike

[Albert]

When training at 40 Mile and over, I use the same spots and never lib anymore than 4 together, and start off at 8 minutes between groups, after about 3 chucks I cut it down to 2 mins, because they know the area and clear quick. But if I add new birds I always make sure I lib them last, because even if you add 1 new bird to a lot of 4 it slows them from clearing, and keeps them in the area ( maybe out of site) and in danger of a strike, and then then get mixed with the next lot you lib, increasing there chances of getting a strike on route.

[Murray]

This is one topic I am reluctant to make an opinion on. Simply because I have had perfect tosses at every distance and with different teams, until I didn't.
You get good tosses when you get them, you get bad tosses when the falcons find them.
Just the way it is.

[MIL]

When training at 40 Mile and over, I use the same spots and never lib anymore than 4 together, and start off at 8 minutes between groups, after about 3 chucks I cut it down to 2 mins, because they know the area and clear quick. But if I add new birds I always make sure I lib them last, because even if you add 1 new bird to a lot of 4 it slows them from clearing, and keeps them in the area ( maybe out of site) and in danger of a strike, and then then get mixed with the next lot you lib, increasing there chances of getting a strike on route.

I can see how that makes a lot of sense

[goose1]

What’s people’s thought on training in groups and possible strikes
I let 12 cocks go at 22 miles they were home in 25 mins in a head wind
The next 12 I kept back 7 min instead of my normal 1 min which I do to get them to chase the first lot , due to the head wind and obstacles on route i changed it I though let’s have a gap today

Both cleared and out of sight before I could count to 10 perfect line
Didn’t get a pigeon for 1 hour 10 min from the 2nd then 3 together
I got them spread out over 3 1/2 hours with 2 together at 7.12 last night
Still 2 short in the night
So I new it wasn’t wires as they ones that don’t hit wires just race home the same

So my question is and Goose would be someone with knowledge
Does training in groups with a gap alert the peregrine that thee are possibly more on the way compared to a larger group together
I go in two groups with the idea if they hit one team the other is ok but that could well be wrong and maybe one group getting through would be better

Only just reading this topic Neil. As with anything, everyone will have their own view and preference. Obviously up here the peregrine situation has long since curtailed what you'd call old style training, I'd say we're one of the last lofts who still train their young birds the old way, which is on our own out to around 40 miles(takes a long time to get 40 miles on a road up here). We know we're gonna get hit probably more than once on the way home but for what we want our pigeons to do they just have to get on with it. We've long since stopped letting them go in batches as there's that many peregrines you'd get a few of the batches hit. I've seen us about 10 years ago liberating in as small a groups as 3 at a time and I can remember my dad ringing me saying there were THREE peregrines chasing one of the groups of the 3. Our own view is just take a chance and get them away in a one we may get lucky and get the batch through, the more batches the more chances of getting them hit. We don't really train our old bird I'll be honest, the disadvantages far out weigh the advantages to us. They've had 3 tosses at 6 miles and all we do that for is just to switch them on to the basket again. Touch wood their exercising that well at home getting down and racing we certainly don't feel a 20/30 mile toss would benefit them any more. I know your sprint based Neil but do you think given the peregrine problem and how it basically ruined your season last year is all the training with the old birds necessary? Your a top man and what you do and I'd edge a bet a few tweaks to your management without the training you'd get the same results without the risk. However you decide to go about it hope it goes well

[Murray]

Yea, like I said.

[NeilA]

Hi Gavin thanks for your reply
Your correct not sure if I had the need to go 25 miles if I stick at 14/15 miles I don’t seem to get the issues it’s once I go that bit extra I get trouble so that’s something I will change
There’s loads of new build estate well small towns they look to me and new road networks going in at the 25 mile mark so I wonder if that is to do with the increased peregrine in that area with the land being dug over amd new environments formed

Definitely a error I made there was no need to chance it I’m only training this amount of times to teach the yearling cocks the system but as you say that can be short
It’s not the flying time needed as I’m actually getting less flying time on a trainer than on a loft fly
Yep I think you make a great point
I will stick 12-15 miles over the weekend and even go twice there than look at doing 25 miles
Cheers for that great points