UkPigeonRacing

NeilA wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 8:47 am

Andy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:43 pm Mike, I respect your views but we are different. I certainly wouldn’t knock your way it worked for you.
My results of late aren’t great and I accept that. I’m not making excuses but my situation with all the changes hasn’t helped. I know what I managed to achieve in the past and how I got there. It’s where I would like to be again. When I was a lot younger there were some extremely good fliers in the Worthing club. I was behind them week after week. My aim then was to get to the stage where I was regularly beating them and over time with my way of breeding I became the top flyer in the club. I was herd manager for 12+ years on the Duke of Norfolk’s estate at Arundel and over that time was when I got a team that were winning the sprint races regularly. I then spent 6 years down in Cornwall with basically the same team and within 2 years were again winning regularly. At the end of 1999 I moved to Somerset. I brought my pigeons with me. Over the next 5 years I moved 3 times. I did win a couple of races but didn’t race much either with all the moving. The pigeons were got rid of before the start of 2005.
So now I’m back in the sport I need to get back to the way I was. Yes things have changed since 2005. There was no ETS then. Darkness wasn’t known much about or used the way it is now.
So yes I have a lot of improvements to make. I do think that one main thing is that you need to be settled and be racing from the same home location for a while to get the best out of the pigeons. That’s one thing that I hope for the future.

Did you not race from 2005 to recently Andy ? I had 3 years out 2014 as I had a lot of work I still kept a few pairs though
But I packed up fully 91 - 2008 when I was away working then lived in a flat in London

No I didn’t Neil. I split/got divorced from my ex-wife in 2005 and because of moving out of the family home / Shop and moved into rental I got rid of all the pigeons. I kept the running of the shop but my ex-wife stayed living upstairs. She was going to buy me out but after a couple of years and many court appearances it was clear that she wouldn’t and wanted it all for nothing. So myself and Roxanna bought her out and we moved back into the flat above the shop where we still are now. It wasn’t until 2015 that I decided that I wanted to keep pigeons again. I managed to persuade Roxanna to let me build a small loft and get a couple of pairs of pigeons. My intention then was to just race a handful of races each year from over the channel and not keep many pigeons or race every week. But you know how it is things change lol. I started racing again in 2017. The first year with the Frome club where I won my first race back and a couple more during the first season back, just young birds. As a club we then decided to just race with the Nationals and Classics and that continued until a couple of years ago when we were down to just 2 of us racing and 5 members, 2 of whom have since died. So with all the restrictions on channel racing it was then that I decided if I was to continue racing I would have to go back into club racing and joined the Glastonbury club, 45 minutes away but the only club available to me, just a couple of years ago. The team I have now are made up from the original 2 pairs and birds gifted by other members on this forum.

You do well to go to that club on a Friday I’m not sure I would time I get home from work it would definitely test me each weekend

NeilA wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:36 am You do well to go to that club on a Friday I’m not sure I would time I get home from work it would definitely test me each weekend

We don’t start marking until 7pm. With the combine we are last pickup which is usually between 11pm and midnight. If it’s my week for waiting for the lorry, always 2 of us and on a rota so fair to all, it could be getting on for 1am before I get home. Back up for work at 7am next morning. Of course we also have that journey again on the Saturday night for the clocks. With the 3 counties we will still be last pickup but will be nearer 10pm. As we have a great friendly and sociable club most members usually stay till around 10pm most nights.

NeilA wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 8:15 am

Andy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:24 pm

NeilA wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:13 pm He’s a different level to us Andy I won 6 feds then the next year 5 and thought I cracked it then you see Mikes results and it blows us both away
He’s a natural and unfortunately we are keen and trying our best but thats all we can do
I get 2 or 3 results a year where I know he thinks it’s good like at Darlington the other year I peppered the marking station against top London lofts I think
I had 12 in the top 20 a 200plus miles or when I got 25 home in a min
You know when I got them 25 I had a 18 sec gap between one lot of 12 and the next arrivals and the bugger said why was the others 18 secs behind did you have a gap
I had the 25 before anyone in the fed

I don’t think you can put Mike in a different league. Undoubtedly he is a top fanciers and very knowledgeable but that doesn’t make him better than many other fanciers. Honestly no disrespect meant Mike. Neil you, and anyone else, can only beat those that you are racing against and at what options you choose to race in. You’re beating whoever you’re racing against so you’re doing all you can. You can’t win nationals, classics, awards etc if you don’t enter them. That doesn’t make you any less of a flyer.
What I am trying to say is that there are many different ways to succeed in this sport.

What was trying to say maybe badly is his level or level of expectation from his team or now he helps Gorden brothers would be higher than mine
If I won the fed then say was 12th fed with the next he would be looking at why the one was out in front of the loft more than thinking great I won the fed which I would think
Now I’m taking notice more than before of the team performance as next week you may need one of them

In 20221-2023 I had 7 really good cocks in my 18 all fed winners and in the drop every week all my cards were won by 11 cocks but 7 were unbelievable i remember thinking any of the 7 could win the fed most weeks i was sending knowing I would be in the top 2/3 in the fed that was with 7 and Mike in his best had 16 like that my 7 showed me you could win with a small team but I thought imagine having double that number and that’s where i would like to get
Unfortunately with 99 per cent yearlings in my team after Bop and giving older cocks away when I was looking at going south in the summer am not sure I have any other than the 2 old cocks of the level

The answer to why you had one 1st fed and the next 12th fed is easy. They weren’t flying together. If flying in a competitive Fed where you say a minute can make a big difference if you don’t have them coming together you won’t have all the top positions. They could have split for several different reasons but you’ll only ever take all the top positions if they drop together. So yes you could ask the question as to why the one was out in front but you’ll never know the answer. Could have been in a different batch or on a slightly different course. A pigeon in one group won’t leave that group to join/catch a group a couple of hundred yards in front of them. If you have different pigeons in the results every week that’s good. If you have 2 or 3 that are constantly in front of the rest then the rest aren’t good enough.
Yes it would be nice having a large team of winners but only ever raced 12 cocks on widowhood and that would include 2 or 3 yearlings.

When there on fire you should really be shut up in 15 min here sprinting ( unless it’s a BOP) maybe 90 per cent should be home from 20 cocks from 100 miles in 10-15 min
Then when you look at the top lofts they get multiple drops near weekly
Not 1 min or 2 apart they seem to have 15-20 together
I normally get that twice in ybs and maybe 2-4 times in old birds where I may get 8/9 from 20 together but not week to week like the ace fliers get
I look at the fed results in Worcester fed , north staffs where the ace fanciers have really good drops
So I think they have more top one percent pigeons than me
Possibly the best example is Brian and Karen Hawes who races south not to far from me his drops are unreal he did north and now south road

You can fly in a small Fed and it still be competitive. I have friends who fly in Fed's that send 700 a week and they're really tough competition to win, so numbers are neither here nor there really

All I'm saying is no matter what the competition you're in you learn more about your birds by comparing them against the birds that they were liberated against. It's not rocket science. It might be (for instance) that say the top 150 in the NFC are in the West Country up through that line into Manchester - and say then a bird pops up in Ipswich. A fair minded bloke would say that was a great pigeon on the day.

If I win a Club I want to be well up in the Fed/Combine. Sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't. We know that and we understand that. What i'm saying is analyse the result and if there's a bloke near to you who's taken a big bite out of your "winner" then there's no real reason why your bird shouldn't be within spitting distance of that pigeon. If it's close to it then great, if your winner has been shit on from a great height then I've a term for your winner. I call it "dogshit" and I certainly wouldn't breed from it.

That was the practice I followed and I practice what I preach

My 1st 9,813 birds winner did naff all besides that. He was a one trick pony

He never stayed long in the loft and he wasn't sold either

I'll come back to your reply over the weekend Neil

I need more time than what I've got today - sorry

MIL wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:29 am You can fly in a small Fed and it still be competitive. I have friends who fly in Fed's that send 700 a week and they're really tough competition to win, so numbers are neither here nor there really

All I'm saying is no matter what the competition you're in you learn more about your birds by comparing them against the birds that they were liberated against. It's not rocket science. It might be (for instance) that say the top 150 in the NFC are in the West Country up through that line into Manchester - and say then a bird pops up in Ipswich. A fair minded bloke would say that was a great pigeon on the day.

If I win a Club I want to be well up in the Fed/Combine. Sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't. We know that and we understand that. What i'm saying is analyse the result and if there's a bloke near to you who's taken a big bite out of your "winner" then there's no real reason why your bird shouldn't be within spitting distance of that pigeon. If it's close to it then great, if your winner has been shit on from a great height then I've a term for your winner. I call it "dogshit" and I certainly wouldn't breed from it.

That was the practice I followed and I practice what I preach

My 1st 9,813 birds winner did naff all besides that. He was a one trick pony

He never stayed long in the loft and he wasn't sold either

I quite agree Mike. All races need analysing and yes you can have a pigeon win a top race and never be in a position to do it again. As you say, just lucky that day.

But then "winners" can be worth naff all too because they've got trounced by birds not far from you geographically but in a different Club but in the same liberation.

The ambitious fancier who wants to progress will see that winner as a winner that was shaded in mediocrity - and i've no time or respect for it

NeilA wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:59 am When there on fire you should really be shut up in 15 min here sprinting ( unless it’s a BOP) maybe 90 per cent should be home from 20 cocks from 100 miles in 10-15 min
Then when you look at the top lofts they get multiple drops near weekly
Not 1 min or 2 apart they seem to have 15-20 together
I normally get that twice in ybs and maybe 2-4 times in old birds where I may get 8/9 from 20 together but not week to week like the ace fliers get
I look at the fed results in Worcester fed , north staffs where the ace fanciers have really good drops
So I think they have more top one percent pigeons than me
Possibly the best example is Brian and Karen Hawes who races south not to far from me his drops are unreal he did north and now south road

Because of the size and spread of our combine even very good fanciers and those sending 60+ birds don’t seem to get big drops. Generally even the best only get a handful together but will have them dropping consistently in small numbers. Just looking at the combine results for last year. There was only a couple of races where even the biggest senders, 150/200+ birds, had 6 or more drop together. None of those won the race. The Staddons in our club did have 13 within 11 seconds on the clock from the first race but still only ended up 2nd then 5th to 16th combine. Our club will quite often take a lot of positions in the first 50 but will be a spread of several of our members. They just seem to get pulled all over the place down here and in our combine. There isn’t a line of flight so to speak from any race point.