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Re: Mike’s help / todays result
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:12 am
by NeilA
Murray wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 12:18 am
I've sat and witched this thread for a couple of days, very interesting the different ways of looking at it.
My view is other than being born with a homing instinct, pigeons are born pretty much a blank sheet. A good routine at home and plenty of education can turn them into pigeons that leave the liberation in the front bunch and can break away.
In other words, winners.
A casual approach, with random training can turn them into followers, or pigeons that fly in the drag. Once that pattern is fixed, I have doubts that it is changed.
Looking at the results of races the same names appear at the top week after week and season after season. That indicates to me that they are doing something different.
And better.
Excellent post
Re: Mike’s help / todays result
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:12 am
by MIL
Thanks Worm - appreciate that
I'm happy to help anyone that wants to be helped. But those who don't can kiss my candy ass to be honest
Every Club has its fanciers who just rock up and take a beating every week. I've no time for that mentality
Take Neil for instance. He's a very good flier
4-5 weeks ago I asked him to change the way he prepares his birds on a Friday
He said "I'd never have thought of that" - but he tried it anyway - even though he was maybe unconvinced at the start
The result now a few weeks later (after several 1st Fed's and more Club wins - and being on Natural)
Neil - Question
In 2025 will you continue to follow this new Friday approach moving forwards?
Re: Mike’s help / todays result
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:14 am
by MIL
Murray wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 12:18 am
I've sat and witched this thread for a couple of days, very interesting the different ways of looking at it.
My view is other than being born with a homing instinct, pigeons are born pretty much a blank sheet. A good routine at home and plenty of education can turn them into pigeons that leave the liberation in the front bunch and can break away.
In other words, winners.
A casual approach, with random training can turn them into followers, or pigeons that fly in the drag. Once that pattern is fixed, I have doubts that it is changed.
Looking at the results of races the same names appear at the top week after week and season after season. That indicates to me that they are doing something different.
And better.
Very true Murray
And then "Following" becomes a habit
Re: Mike’s help / todays result
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:19 am
by NeilA
MIL wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:12 am
Thanks Worm - appreciate that
I'm happy to help anyone that wants to be helped. But those who don't can kiss my candy ass to be honest
Every Club has its fanciers who just rock up and take a beating every week. I've no time for that mentality
Take Neil for instance. He's a very good flier
4-5 weeks ago I asked him to change the way he prepares his birds on a Friday
He said "I'd never have thought of that" - but he tried it anyway - even though he was maybe unconvinced at the start
The result now a few weeks later (after several 1st Fed's and more Club wins - and being on Natural)
Neil - Question
In 2025 will you continue to follow this new Friday approach moving forwards?
Yes I will 100 per cent
It never came into my head to do it but it works fantastic
I won 4 of the clubs 5 races I sent to
Re: Mike’s help / todays result
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:23 am
by MIL
I thought so
What me and Gordon Bros do you see (we've worked together for over 20 years now) is that we break EVERYTHING down - every tiny aspect of Management and say "Can we do this better?" "Is there a better way?"
Then the theory is put into a live scenario and the results assessed over a period of time
What you're doing now won't make an also ran into a winner
It won't make a poorly trained specimen lacking fitness and not 100% health into a winner
But it can make a very good pigeon that's very well prepared into an even greater danger
Re: Mike’s help / todays result
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:36 am
by NeilA
Yes as there going in the best possible way on a Friday that I can get them for my level and being naturals
Re: Mike’s help / todays result
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:38 am
by MIL
NeilA wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:11 am
Got to say I agree with Worm
Not sure what’s gone on Andy but Mikes only been helpful to me and most in the group and plenty of us have seek further help
I text Mike regular when I am in two minds and he’s never ignored what are to him my basic questions
I think we are lucky to have a ex fancier who won what he has be there to help
He raced in a very competitive period in a area where the sprint racing was very different to now
What you must understand is your kind of racing just didn’t happen to him within a few seconds all too lofts were timed in
My area is nothing like the area it was 20 years ago but you know within 2/3 mins when you need one and most will have them in that time
It’s like my training if I didn’t brainwash my babies I would be miles behind
Yesterday in the strong east wind I should be last club and possible only 4 lofts in the fed are in a worse position than me yet I got them coming bang on line
If I didn’t do my night time short training my birds would be coming out the west yesterday I’m sure of it
The lessons that you've instilled in your YB Neil will be with them for life now
Every lesson learned young is learned best
"Can't teach an old dog new tricks?"
Same applies with pigeons. Bad habits (in terms of slack to clear the liberation / training point) are a bugger to resolve permanently
Re: Mike’s help / todays result
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:20 am
by Steve Howells
MIL wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:14 am
Murray wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 12:18 am
I've sat and witched this thread for a couple of days, very interesting the different ways of looking at it.
My view is other than being born with a homing instinct, pigeons are born pretty much a blank sheet. A good routine at home and plenty of education can turn them into pigeons that leave the liberation in the front bunch and can break away.
In other words, winners.
A casual approach, with random training can turn them into followers, or pigeons that fly in the drag. Once that pattern is fixed, I have doubts that it is changed.
Looking at the results of races the same names appear at the top week after week and season after season. That indicates to me that they are doing something different.
And better.
Very true Murray
And then "Following" becomes a habit
I agree with the majority of this, the wrong approach can defiantly ruin birds I'm a dab hand at it
. What I don't agree with is "pigeons apart from homing instinct are born a blank sheet". They inherit a genetic package from their parents, and with good management that genetic package will determine how good they are. There is now plenty of very good research which shows birds with certain Gene allele's that vary from the normal genetic code consistently show up in better preforming birds. What's interesting is many of these gene variants fail to appear in non flying breeds which would suggest racing has had the effect of magnifying them.
Re: Mike’s help / todays result
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:22 am
by MIL
Agreed
Pigeons carrying a certain "lineage" and DNA have an advanced aptitude at winning.
Re: Mike’s help / todays result
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:35 am
by Devo1956
My thoughts of this subject, You breed good youngsters from well proven stock birds. Give them good nutrition and health care, train them hard and well. Weather permitting, and having a good trapping system. Also some single toss training, to help them work it out themselves. Then on race days you hope they break at the Liberation site, and they are the leaders with hundreds and thousand followers behind. That is what i would like.
