My breeding

[Andy]

Neil asked how I will breed winners. So I will answer.
Firstly though I will say this. The way we are with our pigeons and life in general is a combination of experiences we have through life.
My experience with pigeons started almost from the time I started to walk. I started working with cattle when I was 13 cycling 9 miles to work and back at weekends and during school holidays before working full time on a dairy farm after leaving school at 15. I was in dairy farming for over 30 years and this gave me my experience in animal husbandry, breeding, nutrition and veterinary work. I done all my own veterinary procedures apart from major operations like caesareans and displaced stomachs. Then to a lesser degree as a swimmer and waterpolo player. First competing at swimming when I was 8 and later became a county swimming and had been winning many medals up into my 50s when I was still competing in masters events and winning golds. Started playing waterpolo at 10 and again at county level before going into coaching and was at one time assistant coach to the junior GB squad. This swimming and waterpolo is what gives me my competitiveness and team spirit.
Whilst farming I was involved in testing young bulls from all over the world but mainly Canada and USA to find bulls that were going to be good enough to join the worldwide studs. All of this of course would be done through AI, (artificial insemination) and later embryo transfer. This with cattle was a long process as semen wouldn’t be collected from these potential sires until they were at least 18 months old. It would then by 9 months before any calves from them were born. Then a further 2 years before those calves would calve themselves and a year before any records for milk production and type could be used. By this time the bulls would be 5 years old plus. Most would already have been dead by that time but a large storage of frozen semen would have been stored from them. Out of the hundreds of bulls tested only about 5% would be deemed to be good enough for their semen to be sold via the AI companies in their yearly stud books. The semen stored from all the rest would be destroyed. The selection of these young bulls to start with would be purely on their dams being in the top 1% of the breed and bulls that have already gone into the studs. This was as far back as they wanted to know about pedigree, sire & dam, any further back was deemed worthless information apart from making sure there was no inbreeding. The criteria for a bull being accepted for stud was that their offspring had to be an improvement on the breed average both on milk yields and of a type to give longevity, good udder, legs and feet etc.
So to the pigeons with the experiences above. I don’t keep stock pigeons apart from retired racers. If you keep a team of stock birds you are only breeding the same as you already have every year and not improving. I have no real interest in pedigrees as they mean very little any further back than the sire and dam. Not interested in family names, my pigeons have always been a mixture. For me the most enjoyable part of this sport is the breeding. The racing is a small part and only used to determine and assessing my breeding. I have very rarely brought any pigeons although have been gifted some good ones to try out and if good enough to be blended into my family. I’m not interested in buying in pigeons from other fanciers how ever good they maybe just to race them. This then would make me a trainer rather than a stockman. Why would I want to be racing someone else’s breeding.
I was never interested in National racing and only done so for a couple of years or so when I had no club to race in or the time to race every weekend. I have now gone back into just club racing and find it far more enjoyable with a good social side to it. Since going back into club racing I have gone back to widowhood.
So as far as my breeding goes. I don’t race the hens other than as young birds and the odd pair of naturals. I breed one round from every pair at the start of the season. I like to test all the hens for their breeding potential. My best ever breeding hen was rubbish at racing and was a mixture of all sorts but breed lots of winners. The cocks would be kept on their racing performances. My aim with breeding is to each year improve the average quality of the team, both cocks and hens. The hens kept would be those producing the best youngsters and the cocks kept would be those performing best. So every year the quality of the team should be improving. If my performances aren’t getting better then my breeding isn’t right.
One of the most upsetting things for me was when I got divorced and I had to get rid of all my pigeons. These were a family that I had developed over 30 odd years and were winning regularly for the shortest race to the longest race at 650 miles. I have only over the last couple of years started to develop a family again and it will take a bit of time but as long as I see an improvement every year I’m going in the right direction. I would much rather get a lower club position with a family of pigeons of my own that I am developing than winning with pigeons off other people. That doesn’t interest me in the slightest. As said I am a stockman not a trainer.

[NeilA]

Sorry mate that’s interesting but I meant more what do you look for when pairing what you have rather than not having stock etc in 2025
I was interested as I know unfortunately you lost most of your babies so I couldn’t understand how you were going to breed winners or improve them particularly with your race programme
My way is very basic winners or close to winners together any newbies gets paired to two good breeders but your only flying from 34 miles and with no introduction of new blood how do you not end up in the same position next year

So I meant was it eye sign or body by handling that you were going to look for if it’s not results currently

With not having stock would you not be missing out on taking ybs from a top breeding hen if you found one as she would be 3 years old by the time you took 6 youngsters

[Buster121]

A good insight there Andy

[Devo1956]

I think your members have to get together, and have a good char over the distances you will be flying next season Andy. 34 mile races is just a waste of time, other clubs start around 70 miles.You have had a lot to deal with in the past few months, Just sit down and work out on what you want out of the sport mate.

[NeilA]

I think your members have to get together, and have a good char over the distances you will be flying next season Andy. 34 mile races is just a waste of time, other clubs start around 70 miles.You have had a lot to deal with in the past few months, Just sit down and work out on what you want out of the sport mate.

First old bird race is 83 miles here
Ybs we had a 51 mile race but normally it’s 83
34 miles to a wide radius I would struggle to make the effort for
It’s not a nice thing to have to do each week that’s for sure

[MIL]

34 mls is very short yes, but Pierre Beyl (for instance) has great success at comparable distances

I view this like a 60 metre indoor sprint race

You need to be sharp out the blocks, thats where the race is won and lost

These short races are no different. The birds need to be out and away FAST. Pigeons that lead don’t get pulled onto a line thats not theirs

[Devo1956]

34 mls is very short yes, but Pierre Beyl (for instance) has great success at comparable distances

I view this like a 60 metre indoor sprint race

You need to be sharp out the blocks, thats where the race is won and lost

These short races are no different. The birds need to be out and away FAST. Pigeons that lead don’t get pulled onto a line thats not theirs

If i was able to race at this distance, i would do single toss training. Getting the birds to work for themselves.

[worm]

I thing they battle each other and jostle to be in front if there in 3s or 4s rather than home in ones

[NeilA]

34 mls is very short yes, but Pierre Beyl (for instance) has great success at comparable distances

I view this like a 60 metre indoor sprint race

You need to be sharp out the blocks, thats where the race is won and lost

These short races are no different. The birds need to be out and away FAST. Pigeons that lead don’t get pulled onto a line thats not theirs

would the width of the radius be as wide as Andy’s fed as it seems to be Somerset width wise

[MIL]

Probably not (dunno for sure)

But i’ve seen Gary wreck a result at 60 mls regularly in a wider radius

The principle remains the same