Any Eye Sign Specialists

[NeilA]

Cheers Andy
That’s stage one in my brain at least

[NeilA]

I use eyesign as an insight to breeding and selecting which to pair to which to complement each other. For this there are certain things I look for.
So Neil, going through your birds.
You can see the resemblance in the first 3 and not surprised you say they are related.
No.1
The inner circle of this one has just what I was saying, looks like a washer around the pupil. It is a full violet with only a little light shading between 7 o’clock and 9 o’clock in the photo. The outer edge of this circle has a little bit of serration especially between 7 & 10 o’clock. On the slight downside for breeding purposes is the fullness of the iris. This is the reddish/brown colour that covers most of the violet circle of colouration. A nice eye that I would look to pair to one with more room in the iris.
No.2
This eye is similar to the first one but has an area of dark shading between 2 o’clock and 7 o’clock when looking at the pigeon. The photo shows the beak of the pigeon being in the bottom right of the photo. The inner circle isn’t quite so wide as the first one. The iris isn’t quite as full as the first one with more of the violet showing through. The iris is more mountainous than the first one. By this I mean that the reddish iris looks like it’s been stuck on over the top of the circle of colouration.
No.3
This one hasn’t got as good inner circle of the first 2 but has more room in the iris. The inner circle has a large area of dark shading, which is also quite wide, between 2 o’clock and 8 o’clock. What I do like is seeing the violet circle of colouration showing through the iris in several places.
No.4
You say this one is very different to the others in your loft Neil. I really like this eye and would certainly say it has the potential to breed winners. I would say the reason you say it’s different is because it’s much lighter in colour than your others.
The inner circle is a dominant violet, nearly white. It is nice and wide with a bit of serration and no dark shading. There are also some ripples with in this circle. The circle of colouration, again dominate violet, can be seen right to the outside edge of the eye. The iris, which is reddish pink is laid nicely over the circle of colouration with veins running down to the inner circle. This is a very nice eye.
No.5
I see what you’re saying about the inner circle of this one. The circle is so full of dark shading it does appear to be breaking out into the circle of colouration. You can’t really see the circle because of this. This is one that would want to go with an eye like either 1 or 4. I do however like the circle of colouration and iris. The violet circle of colouration can be seen through to the outside of the eye and has loads of ripples and waves throughout.
No.6
Unfortunately Neil this photo is a bit blurred so not very easy to assess. Gets worse if you try to enlarge it. A very different colour to your other ones but from what I can see looks quite nice. You say he is 14. The eye does deteriorate a bit with age.
No.7
I think this one should breed you winners Neil. The inner circle, this time of yellow, is nice and wide. It has a bit of light shading between 6 o’clock and 10 o’clock. It does look a bit thin between 3 & 5 o’clock but that’s because the colour here is very similar to the circle of colouration. Again the yellow circle of colouration can be seen around the outer edge of the eye. The orange iris is quite mountainous and has plenty of room.

I must add though that when assessing eye sign in a pigeon you do need to look at both eyes, they can vary from eye to eye.

Hope this is useful information for you Neil.

I purchased 4 to pair to 5 without looking at eyes funny enough just based on him being a Gaby x Hereman and 5 a Gaby that bred me a good racer who had a 1st fed then 3rd or 4th before he never returned from a 80 mile race the week after he scored in the fed
So that handy you picked them as a possible pair

[Diamond Dave]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread - so thanks to every one that has contributed.
I knew nothing about the eyesign principle but its good to know what other people look for.
I dont think I will be using it but like most fanciers when handling birds, I always like to look into the eye.
There is one question I would ask of you Andy, which is -h- is there anything that you can see in the eye that relates to health issues, perhaps current or maybe historical....?

[king]

Here's 4 eyes from some British birds from over 40 years ago. You won't find birds like them today. No birds alive today in the UK, Belgium or Holland have achieved what they have done. What's your views?

upload a photo
imghost

Top Left. Raced by Geroge Ogilvie & Sons Dundee.
3784 Blue Cheq hen bred in 1974.
Flew Palamos (1,043 miles) as a two year old in 1976 winning 17th Section E, 304th Open BBC and 6th in the Scottish 1000 mile club. In 1977 it was back to Palamos again, this time to win 2nd Scottish 1000 Mile Club, 6th Section E, 100th Open BBC. She also Won 1st club, 7th Fed Longtown, 1st club, 11th Fed Penrith, 1st club, 4th Fed Lancaster.
In all 3784 flew Palamos 3 times 1,043 miles, taking jumps of 790 miles & One of 830 miles when racing from Spain(she never ever raced from France)


Top Right. Raced by Bert Stewart, Carnoustie.
0014 Mealy Hen 'Betty's Delight' bred in 1970.
Flew Avranches 545 miles in 1972, Nantes 642 miles 1973, Pau 913 miles 1974. 4th Section E, 151st Open BBC Palamos 1,041 miles in 1975. 1st Scottish 1000 Mile Club, 4th Section E, 129th Open BBC Palamos. in 1976. Rested in 1977. 1st bird into Scotland, 1st Section E, Palamos in 1976. 3 x Palamos 1,041 miles.

Bottom Left. Raced by J Alexander of Monifieth.
3225 Mealy Cock. Bred in 1971. Flown Avranches 540 miles twice, Rennes 580 miles. Unraced in 1977 trained once at 60 miles four weeks before the race and jumped 983 miles into Palamos 1,043 miles. This was obviously adequate as 3225 went on to win 1st Scottish 1000 Mile Club, 1st Section E, 68th Open BBC Palamos flying 1,043 miles.

Bottom Right. Bred by D & S Smith of Dunning.
Blue Cheq Hen bred in 1973 'Dunning 40' At 16 weeks old this hen flew BBC Rennes YB Nat flying 572 miles. In 1974 Rennes as yearling 572 miles. 1975 Nantes 634 miles. In 1976 from Palamos 29th Scottish 1000 Mile Club, 43rd Section E, 375th Open BBC Palamos 1,039 miles.

If anybody is interested I've some others I can post.

[Devo1956]

Here's 4 eyes from some British birds from over 40 years ago. You won't find birds like them today. No birds alive today in the UK, Belgium or Holland have achieved what they have done. What's your views?

upload a photo
imghost

Top Left. Raced by Geroge Ogilvie & Sons Dundee.
3784 Blue Cheq hen bred in 1974.
Flew Palamos (1,043 miles) as a two year old in 1976 winning 17th Section E, 304th Open BBC and 6th in the Scottish 1000 mile club. In 1977 it was back to Palamos again, this time to win 2nd Scottish 1000 Mile Club, 6th Section E, 100th Open BBC. She also Won 1st club, 7th Fed Longtown, 1st club, 11th Fed Penrith, 1st club, 4th Fed Lancaster.
In all 3784 flew Palamos 3 times 1,043 miles, taking jumps of 790 miles & One of 830 miles when racing from Spain(she never ever raced from France)
















































Top Right. Raced by Bert Stewart, Carnoustie.
0014 Mealy Hen 'Betty's Delight' bred in 1970.
Flew Avranches 545 miles in 1972, Nantes 642 miles 1973, Pau 913 miles 1974. 4th Section E, 151st Open BBC Palamos 1,041 miles in 1975. 1st Scottish 1000 Mile Club, 4th Section E, 129th Open BBC Palamos. in 1976. Rested in 1977. 1st bird into Scotland, 1st Section E, Palamos in 1976. 3 x Palamos 1,041 miles.

Bottom Left. Raced by J Alexander of Monifieth.
3225 Mealy Cock. Bred in 1971. Flown Avranches 540 miles twice, Rennes 580 miles. Unraced in 1977 trained once at 60 miles four weeks before the race and jumped 983 miles into Palamos 1,043 miles. This was obviously adequate as 3225 went on to win 1st Scottish 1000 Mile Club, 1st Section E, 68th Open BBC Palamos flying 1,043 miles.

Bottom Right. Bred by D & S Smith of Dunning.
Blue Cheq Hen bred in 1973 'Dunning 40' At 16 weeks old this hen flew BBC Rennes YB Nat flying 572 miles. In 1974 Rennes as yearling 572 miles. 1975 Nantes 634 miles. In 1976 from Palamos 29th Scottish 1000 Mile Club, 43rd Section E, 375th Open BBC Palamos 1,039 miles.

If anybody is interested I've some others I can post.

Quality flying from these birds, thanks for for sharing King.

[MIL]

So I was right?

No.1 was the dual purpose

[NeilA]

What kind of birdage went to Palamos in 1974
Only ask to see if the birds just homed or raced I know that isn’t what your into but for me say 400 went and a bird was 150th flying 100 miles more and I get that this makes me unpopular but that’s homed and could be 2 days behind where it needed to be home to win so just wondered if you could add the birdage
Not to have a fall out just to have a bit of a idea

[king]

What kind of birdage went to Palamos in 1974
Only ask to see if the birds just homed or raced I know that isn’t what your into but for me say 400 went and a bird was 150th flying 100 miles more and I get that this makes me unpopular but that’s homed and could be 2 days behind where it needed to be home to win so just wondered if you could add the birdage
Not to have a fall out just to have a bit of a idea

The Open positions Neil were the BBC Open positions so these 1000 mile birds were flying against the lads on the South coast. Some birds were flying 350/400 miles further than the first drop.
In 1973 328 members sent 702 birds. The winner Reg Churchill flew 657 miles v627ypm. The first 1000 mile bird was 1st E, 27th open v155ypm. (section E included birds flying 200 less)

The 1974 race saw 432 members sending 1,023
The 1975 race saw 392 members sending 923 birds The winner was Trever Dodd Taunton flying 694 miles on v860ypm the first 1000 mile bird was Alan Raeside, Irvine flying 1,010 miles on 674.5ypm winning 3rd section E, 56th open. This bird is current The British 1000 Mile Record Holder. I've a photo somewhere of his bird.

In the 1975 race over 30 birds were verified in the Scottish 1000 Mile Club.

[NeilA]

What kind of birdage went to Palamos in 1974
Only ask to see if the birds just homed or raced I know that isn’t what your into but for me say 400 went and a bird was 150th flying 100 miles more and I get that this makes me unpopular but that’s homed and could be 2 days behind where it needed to be home to win so just wondered if you could add the birdage
Not to have a fall out just to have a bit of a idea

The Open positions Neil were the BBC Open positions so these 1000 mile birds were flying against the lads on the South coast. Some birds were flying 350/400 miles further than the first drop.
In 1973 328 members sent 702 birds. The winner Reg Churchill flew 657 miles v627ypm. The first 1000 mile bird was 1st E, 27th open v155ypm. (section E included birds flying 200 less)

The 1974 race saw 432 members sending 1,023
The 1975 race saw 392 members sending 923 birds The winner was Trever Dodd Taunton flying 694 miles on v860ypm the first 1000 mile bird was Alan Raeside, Irvine flying 1,010 miles on 674.5ypm winning 3rd section E, 56th open. This bird is current The British 1000 Mile Record Holder. I've a photo somewhere of his bird.

In the 1975 race over 30 birds were verified in the Scottish 1000 Mile Club.

The birds sent then were a lot better than now it seems and the bird age was

Now them races seem to just be a Kent club or 80 percent are from there it’s not really a national now

Why would that be king ? Obviously decline in the sport but was there more northern marking stations as transport links are better now
Them positions are decent where now you can be 2/3 days behind and get in the result
I once sent a old plodder to Barcelona my only time the race was won on the Sunday I had Monday off and nothing in the Tuesday after I got home from work he was there I didn’t bother to verify and found out he would have been about 30th to me he was 2 days behind but now you see people proud of these things it looks like in the 70’s they were much more competitive all over the uk

[king]

What kind of birdage went to Palamos in 1974
Only ask to see if the birds just homed or raced I know that isn’t what your into but for me say 400 went and a bird was 150th flying 100 miles more and I get that this makes me unpopular but that’s homed and could be 2 days behind where it needed to be home to win so just wondered if you could add the birdage
Not to have a fall out just to have a bit of a idea

Yes some birds were days behind just like they are today, up until Mark Gilbert clocking on the day from Barcelona, NO bird has ever been clocked over 650 miles to the South coast. No bird still has ever been clocked on the day from Palamos. So if the leading birds are taking 2-3 days to arrive down on the South coast, it's no surprise those flying half as far more to take even longer. Even Marks record breaking performance of 698 miles on the day from Barcelona is some 50 miles less than the UK record of 748 miles on the day by Brian Denney from Tarbes.

The Open positions Neil were the BBC Open positions so these 1000 mile birds were flying against the lads on the South coast. Some birds were flying 350/400 miles further than the first drop.
In 1973 328 members sent 702 birds. The winner Reg Churchill flew 657 miles v627ypm. The first 1000 mile bird was 1st E, 27th open v155ypm. (section E included birds flying 200 less)

The 1974 race saw 432 members sending 1,023
The 1975 race saw 392 members sending 923 birds The winner was Trever Dodd Taunton flying 694 miles on v860ypm the first 1000 mile bird was Alan Raeside, Irvine flying 1,010 miles on 674.5ypm winning 3rd section E, 56th open. This bird is current The British 1000 Mile Record Holder. I've a photo somewhere of his bird. Alan also had the 2nd ever fastest 1000 mile bird when in 1988 his Mealy grandson of 'The Coqueror' was 1st section E, 5th open Palamos flying 1,010 miles. Also the nestmate of 'The Conqueror' was herself 7th into Scotland from Palamos in 1977 and 1st Scottish 1000 Mile Club, 2nd into Scotland from Palamos 1,010 miles in 1978.

In the 1975 race over 30 birds were verified in the Scottish 1000 Mile Club.