Wow! Food for thought.

[Murray]

From Ad's blog today.

BREEDING AND... (24-11-24)
"The Belgians will be putting their pigeons together again in a few days. Many Dutch people are still waiting.
Some put couples together based on pedigrees.
Pedigrees are interesting, but you have to put things into perspective.
Good breeding is mainly a matter of luck, but you can help with that. By paying particular attention to the age of the (fore)parents of a super pigeon.
INTERESTING
Then you will discover that many good pigeons come from couples where at least one parent is a yearling. Many good ones also come from imported pigeons.
You will also discover how few good ones are bred from couples where both partners are old. What many do is to pair their proven old breeders with yearlings.
WHY
As cocks get older, the sperm becomes less qualitative and weaker.
As hens get older, the contents of the eggs become less nutritious for the embryo in the egg.
So there are plenty of reasons not to pair old rascals with each other.
When Klak came to Orleans here to look after him, he kept hammering home to other 'letters' that the longer couples were together, the worse the youngsters.
That may be true but for a different reason than Jos intended. I think it has everything to do with getting older.
So a plea for younger breeders! Those champions who sell all their breeders 'older than' every few years know what they are doing.
CAUSE
That some people do not get any further is mainly because they breed like crazy. From EVERYTHING. Also from pigeons they know nothing about and from older pigeons that have not yet produced a single good youngster. Pigeons of four years or older do not belong in the breeding loft. Get rid of such. Rather breed one round more of your better pigeons."

I had many old stock pigeons in Bendigo. I gave some away and others decided not to stay. Now I have breeders between 1 and 4 years old. apart from one very old hen I want one daughter off.
I think you can breed stock birds off old pigeons, to keep the genes, but race birds, the parents should be young and vigorous.

[MIL]

Virgin hens are the best

I've seen no end of great pigeons come from virgin hens

[MIL]

Murphy's Law is a 2017 cock I don't see Ad's big mate Willem De Bruijn selling him in a hurry when he gets over £100,000 for his YB at auction

Oh, and "Murphy" continues to breed super pigeons

[MIL]

So following Ad's advice this hen would never have been bred as she's from a 17 cock and an 18 hen

[Murray]

Like I said, food for thought.

[MIL]

Nonsense for me

I love virgin hens but good birds are good birds

Following that advice my entire Gaby dynasty doesn't exist and I can give all sorts of examples from older birds breeding exceptional birds

[NeilA]

I bred a fed winner off a 9 year old cock paired to a 5 year old hen year before last
Although I was advised try not to go over a combined age of 10 years for a pair

Also thinking about it as I don’t breed off racers I imagine I breed off no yearling cocks and very few yearling hens if any as I keep 12 pairs of stock including 3 pairs of feeders .
So a yearling cock wouldn’t get in there to I retire him
Or the odd one I bring in could be a yearling but for example there are no yearlings in there currently cocks or hens

It is something I think about as I know some breeders could be in my race shed but not retained after the yearling stage without being bred from if they were poor racers

[king]

From Ad's blog today.

BREEDING AND... (24-11-24)
"The Belgians will be putting their pigeons together again in a few days. Many Dutch people are still waiting.
Some put couples together based on pedigrees.
Pedigrees are interesting, but you have to put things into perspective.
Good breeding is mainly a matter of luck, but you can help with that. By paying particular attention to the age of the (fore)parents of a super pigeon.
INTERESTING
Then you will discover that many good pigeons come from couples where at least one parent is a yearling. Many good ones also come from imported pigeons.
You will also discover how few good ones are bred from couples where both partners are old. What many do is to pair their proven old breeders with yearlings.
WHY
As cocks get older, the sperm becomes less qualitative and weaker.
As hens get older, the contents of the eggs become less nutritious for the embryo in the egg.
So there are plenty of reasons not to pair old rascals with each other.
When Klak came to Orleans here to look after him, he kept hammering home to other 'letters' that the longer couples were together, the worse the youngsters.
That may be true but for a different reason than Jos intended. I think it has everything to do with getting older.
So a plea for younger breeders! Those champions who sell all their breeders 'older than' every few years know what they are doing.
CAUSE
That some people do not get any further is mainly because they breed like crazy. From EVERYTHING. Also from pigeons they know nothing about and from older pigeons that have not yet produced a single good youngster. Pigeons of four years or older do not belong in the breeding loft. Get rid of such. Rather breed one round more of your better pigeons."

I had many old stock pigeons in Bendigo. I gave some away and others decided not to stay. Now I have breeders between 1 and 4 years old. apart from one very old hen I want one daughter off.
I think you can breed stock birds off old pigeons, to keep the genes, but race birds, the parents should be young and vigorous.

Ad really talks some rubbish at times. Why's he's keeping the very old hen? Get rid. Genetics has proven age doesn't matter. In the wild often it's old mature Sires are the main breeders both in animals & birds.
In racing yearlings make up the biggest % of birds housed. And yearlings make up the biggest % of birds lost as old birds.

[king]

I bred a fed winner off a 9 year old cock paired to a 5 year old hen year before last
Although I was advised try not to go over a combined age of 10 years for a pair

Also thinking about it as I don’t breed off racers I imagine I breed off no yearling cocks and very few yearling hens if any as I keep 12 pairs of stock including 3 pairs of feeders .
So a yearling cock wouldn’t get in there to I retire him
Or the odd one I bring in could be a yearling but for example there are no yearlings in there currently cocks or hens

It is something I think about as I know some breeders could be in my race shed but not retained after the yearling stage without being bred from if they were poor racers

As you know Neil I bred 14 ybs birds for JP. he's finished with 12/14. Some were bred off birds with a combined age of 17, 12, 23, 10

[NeilA]

That’s a good return
Be interesting how they go the year next