Distance Birds

[Diamond Dave]

Interesting, one of those 'variables' is obviously the wind and I wonder where Mark G bird actually crossed the channel.

[Diamond Dave]

I also wonder if in a strong West wind whether say a Bristol bird would cross at Calais and fly along the English coast to get home or would it fly the French coast and cross at Cherbourg and vice-versa with a Kent bird in a strong East wind.

[NeilA]

I also wonder if in a strong West wind whether say a Bristol bird would cross at Calais and fly along the English coast to get home or would it fly the French coast and cross at Cherbourg and vice-versa with a Kent bird in a strong East wind.

I would think most birds from the BICC eastern race points go north then dog leg west so hit Dover first 99 percent the time when we are off the pace of the international
Nigel Rigiani the old BBC convoyer explained in his lap top the journey home from Barcelona the pigeons had to head north for many miles before starting to get over to the west
It’s no coincidence where the BICCis won 9 times out of 10 and the sections that send the most
It’s not because Dover has a group of outstanding distance fanciers better than anywhere else in the UK it’s just that’s the only place your do less dead miles than anywhere else
You can really be 2 hours behind other UK pigeons in Dover and still beat them

[MIL]

Interesting, one of those 'variables' is obviously the wind and I wonder where Mark G bird actually crossed the channel.

If you mean his Barcelona bird, considering she was 6th International from over 16,000 birds you've gotta think she kept to a pretty genuine line.

[MIL]

Last year ,her first year, we had her paired to a son of Verweij-de Haans Miss Milos, really just to work on the Milos line, as you probably know Mike, Luna May was herself bred from a nest pair of grandchildren of Milos.

This year she's paired to a son of Wingdown, when Wingdown was paired to a daughter of Forrest Junior.

Lots of respect obviously for the prowess of "Wingdown" as a breeder, and "Milos" is obviously a super pigeon too

I'm less enthusiastic about the Freialdenhofen pigeons.

I'm well aware of their performances, I just don't see any real depth of performance coming through them in the UK

I value the Menne pigeons higher if truth be told (just my opinion)

[Devo1956]

I had a few pair of Etienne Meirlaen birds, at the time I was not racing any distance racing. So they went to a lad in Blackburn, he reported he done well with them.

[Trev]

I've not read every post on this topic so apologies if I repeat anything already said.
I just have a couple of feelings/opinions of my own for what they're worth.

Firstly I remember being told may years ago when I was first starting out in this sport, was that if you want 500mile plus pigeons, to buy those that have flown the distance on the day from North to South and not South to North. This theory was due to the fact that a bird flying to the North has more daylight hours than one flying the other way. Not being one to ever buy pigeons I couldn't say if this theory really holds up or not.

Another thought I've had since Mark Gilbert clocked his Barcelona day bird, is that if this bird had been unable to complete the journey on the day, would it have still got up early enough the next morning to win the race, or would it never have been seen again ! Our Club Chairman, Dave Bridger had a hen that won London and South Coast Classic race from Tarbes, 542miles in 2011. The birds were liberated at 7am and Dave's Hen was timed at 21.33pm and was the only bird on the day. Now Dave told me that this bird never had a night out in her whole racing career until the NFC decided to go for a mid day liberation from Tarbes, this hen was in the convoy for this race and was never seen again. Maybe just one of those strange coincidences but it does make you think.
As much as I respect those birds that do those distances in a day, (and would love to have one myself), I equally have enormous respect for that bird who flies 400 to 500miles in a day, and then has the courage/drive to get up and go again early the next day.

The other point, which I'm sure will also be the most contentious, is that it's easy to spend lots of money if you have plenty of it !!
Again, as much as I respect the likes of Mark Gilbert, and I know that their achievements can't be disputed, you also have to question just how many birds they lose each year in their quest to find that one Supreme champion. When someone can afford to send the best part of 100 yearlings 500+ miles, and to lose most of them, it really does put into perspective the achievements of the fanciers who only send two or three birds and get them.

These are just my thoughts and opinions.

[MIL]

I do understand what you're saying Trev, and it's an easy accusation to throw at Mark in the sense that he keeps and maintains a lot of pigeons. When you're at the level he's at though he needs an army.
Pretty much from Mid-May onwards he's fighting battles at either NFC/BICC/BBC or International level every single week, and every single race people are looking at him and analysing him. You can't compete week in week out at that level with a small number of pigeons - it's just not feasible.



Now, it doesn't take a good pigeon man to look after 300 birds. Any fool can do that. But it does take a bloody good pigeon man to look after and control a massive team of pigeon and win with them. Time after time I've seen fanciers have super success and they've then "upscaled" their team in numbers and the results haven't followed. That's because the control and attention to detail hasn't been the same as it was.

Mark sends a lot - we know this. I've also seen him send 1 bird to a National and win 1st National too

Where Mark has no equals really is his desire to get his birds performing time and time again.

His "History" pigeon yes she was 6th International Barcelona against over 16,000 birds, but many overlook the year before she was 33rd Open NFC Tarbes (as a yearling) flying 15 hrs 35 on the wing



If you look at the images below you'll find "Darran" flying exceptionally from Pau, St Vincent and Perpignan all in a 6 week period

If you look at "Hugo" he won the BICC Perpignan in 2017 and his reward for that was to get his arse into the 2018 Barcelona race where he won that too



If you look at "Gold Lady" she'd done well in 2018 from Agen, in 2019 at both Pau and Marseille

Her reward for those efforts was to get her arse to Barcelona in 2020 where she won 1st National across the BBC and BICC





So, Mark's not just after the win. He's after these pigeons to perform outstandingly well time and time again

99% of fanciers would have stopped many of those pigeons but he pushes on and on always striving for better, and for that he commands my respect

[Trev]

I do understand what you're saying Trev, and it's an easy accusation to throw at Mark in the sense that he keeps and maintains a lot of pigeons. When you're at the level he's at though he needs an army.
Pretty much from Mid-May onwards he's fighting battles at either NFC/BICC/BBC or International level every single week, and every single race people are looking at him and analysing him. You can't compete week in week out at that level with a small number of pigeons - it's just not feasible.



Now, it doesn't take a good pigeon man to look after 300 birds. Any fool can do that. But it does take a bloody good pigeon man to look after and control a massive team of pigeon and win with them. Time after time I've seen fanciers have super success and they've then "upscaled" their team in numbers and the results haven't followed. That's because the control and attention to detail hasn't been the same as it was.

Mark sends a lot - we know this. I've also seen him send 1 bird to a National and win 1st National too

Where Mark has no equals really is his desire to get his birds performing time and time again.

His "History" pigeon yes she was 6th International Barcelona against over 16,000 birds, but many overlook the year before she was 33rd Open NFC Tarbes (as a yearling) flying 15 hrs 35 on the wing



If you look at the images below you'll find "Darran" flying exceptionally from Pau, St Vincent and Perpignan all in a 6 week period

If you look at "Hugo" he won the BICC Perpignan in 2017 and his reward for that was to get his arse into the 2018 Barcelona race where he won that too



If you look at "Gold Lady" she'd done well in 2018 from Agen, in 2019 at both Pau and Marseille

Her reward for those efforts was to get her arse to Barcelona in 2020 where she won 1st National across the BBC and BICC





So, Mark's not just after the win. He's after these pigeons to perform outstandingly well time and time again

99% of fanciers would have stopped many of those pigeons but he pushes on and on always striving for better, and for that he commands my respect

Thanks for your comments and that information Mike, they are phenomenal pigeons and performances.
I quite agree with you, he does have an outstanding record and is undeniably an excellent pigeon man, and of course I know he also works hard for the BICC and the sport in general.
The Preece's, the Staddons and the May's are others who spring to mind along with the late Ian Crammond, all outstanding pigeon fanciers with large teams. As you say, it's not like the old days when we only had half a dozen or so big classic races to compete in, it is relentless these days.
There is no denying either that this sport does need these big lofts to help keep the sport alive.
I know I did mention Mark by name but wasn't just aiming my comments just at him, there are plenty of others out there like Mark.
I'm just putting other thoughts out there for people to think about and am interested in hearing their comments too.
I shall never achieve what these fanciers do year after year, but also admit that I just don't have the desire or drive that they do either.

[NeilA]

I think a lot of the top continental lofts seem to have massive teams and fantastic set ups with loft managers or people to clean etc
Marks really just doing that here so perhaps stands out as others are not and he’s set up is to compete with his equals on the continent if we had 30 blokes doing it then it would be normal to see
It wasn’t uncommon in London sprinting years ago to have a near professional fanciers set up or fanciers not need to work with a large team and set up to match
We still have that now but a lot less like there are less of all fanciers