Training and peregrine

[NeilA]

The bigger the group of pigeons the MORE attention they will attract. More so with YBs. Train in as many smaller groups as you have time for. And although I'm not racing now, when I did my YB team was around 25 birds which was trained and loft flown in TWO teams. In my last four years racing I didn't lose more than a handful of YBs either training or loft flying. And this is despite having 3 pairs of Sparrowhawks and a pair of Peregrines a mile and a half away.
Other local lofts who had a single much larger teams were not so lucky.
95% of my BOP problems were having birds returning from racing having been hit.

These went in two groups of 12 king
Both groups include good pigeons a equal split group 2 had a cock with 6 top 10 fed positions
Having time to put them up in 4’s is tight after work
I could have put them up in small groups to chase I decided not to as they cross the main set of pylons in the south east and they face a SSE wind so a head wind

[CHARLTON34]

So my m8 has been 26mls on line of flight been hit each time, also being hit at home loft flying .
He has a large set-up but has lost 46 pigeon's this year alone to sparrow hawk, & Peregrine's, I've had 6 tosses out to 20 mls & only 2 occasions have I had a free run back all the other times I've been hit & lost pigeons never to be seen again.
In the end the bop situation will decimate the sport, with more people leaving each year, & with very little being done to address this out of control situation.
I wish I new the answer to this problem, because the number's are out of control & the tipping point has already been reached, I could live with it if the numbers could be kept in check a sensible sustainable figure, but this is gone beyond a joke I'm afraid .

[NeilA]

So my m8 has been 26mls on line of flight been hit each time, also being hit at home loft flying .
He has a large set-up but has lost 46 pigeon's this year alone to sparrow hawk, & Peregrine's, I've had 6 tosses out to 20 mls & only 2 occasions have I had a free run back all the other times I've been hit & lost pigeons never to be seen again.
In the end the bop situation will decimate the sport, with more people leaving each year, & with very little being done to address this out of control situation.
I wish I new the answer to this problem, because the number's are out of control & the tipping point has already been reached, I could live with it if the numbers could be kept in check a sensible sustainable figure, but this is gone beyond a joke I'm afraid .

That’s awful
Upto 3 years ago we were lucky here north of London training north never got missing pigeons then we noticed more were being lost in races even short races
Now these last two years the problem is training
I am going to stick to 15/16 miles just give the hens one longer one tonight from a different spot then short
When ybs come it seems a bit better training to 25 miles it’s April / May we suffer
My pal took his 5 miles and got hit local to me they came all day and he was a 3 year old short that was at 400 miles last year
Made me laugh last year when people posted wires and poor health are as much to blame as BOP after I had 1/2/4 fed and lost 2 of them training and racing in 10 days along with 2 other fed winners in two training tosses and 2 races at 83 and 95 miles
I had 8 injured or missing secondary flights by the first week of May
Trouble is unless your racing in the circumstances you don’t realise it , I admit I never
Upto 2 years ago if I started with 20 cocks I could fly to 350 miles and expect to select from about 17 at the end

[CHARLTON34]

You change route won't make a scrap of difference, wherever you are anywhere in the UK your going to get hit that's fact.
Yesterday 20mls 1 came on it's own, then 2, then another 2 came 30 mins later then singles to about 7.30 pm, not seen a feather of the other 3. So yes a big problem that's only going to get worse, this man made breeding program that's being allowed to scale up each year on buildings, churches etc just doesn't sit right with me, messing with nature racing won't be sustainable .

[NeilA]

You change route won't make a scrap of difference, wherever you are anywhere in the UK your going to get hit that's fact.
Yesterday 20mls 1 came on it's own, then 2, then another 2 came 30 mins later then singles to about 7.30 pm, not seen a feather of the other 3. So yes a big problem that's only going to get worse, this man made breeding program that's being allowed to scale up each year on buildings, churches etc just doesn't sit right with me, messing with nature racing won't be sustainable .

Agree Dave
Have to breed a big team just to get a selection

[Johnbee]

Yes, we get hit with both sparrow hawk and Pergrine while out exercising. My birds have only been allowed out after the youngsters wee away this last week. Birds are either in the sky or in the loft. Use the flag, when flag comes down, birds must go in or no feed for them. It’s when the birds are coming in to land, I sometimes get hit with the sparrow hawk. Youngsters never get out after end of June, just train basket and home. Excerising around loft after end of June, they just get slaughtered with the Pergrine driving them into the pylons for an easy kill.

[NeilA]

Yes, we get hit with both sparrow hawk and Pergrine while out exercising. My birds have only been allowed out after the youngsters wee away this last week. Birds are either in the sky or in the loft. Use the flag, when flag comes down, birds must go in or no feed for them. It’s when the birds are coming in to land, I sometimes get hit with the sparrow hawk. Youngsters never get out after end of June, just train basket and home. Excerising around loft after end of June, they just get slaughtered with the Pergrine driving them into the pylons for an easy kill.

That’s terrible at home I get the constant sparrow hawk but this year I have been lucky other years it’s relentless
The peregrine so far hasn’t hit me at home but once I get about 20 miles I would say I get hit 1 in 4 trainers now

[MIL]

What’s people’s thought on training in groups and possible strikes
I let 12 cocks go at 22 miles they were home in 25 mins in a head wind
The next 12 I kept back 7 min instead of my normal 1 min which I do to get them to chase the first lot , due to the head wind and obstacles on route i changed it I though let’s have a gap today

Both cleared and out of sight before I could count to 10 perfect line
Didn’t get a pigeon for 1 hour 10 min from the 2nd then 3 together
I got them spread out over 3 1/2 hours with 2 together at 7.12 last night
Still 2 short in the night
So I new it wasn’t wires as they ones that don’t hit wires just race home the same

So my question is and Goose would be someone with knowledge
Does training in groups with a gap alert the peregrine that thee are possibly more on the way compared to a larger group together
I go in two groups with the idea if they hit one team the other is ok but that could well be wrong and maybe one group getting through would be better

The one thing that we can all agree on Neil is that whenever our birds are in the air (exercise, training or racing) then our birds are at the mercy of BoP and wires. There's always a risk - always.

So, how best to manage that risk?

You "could" tag them. As you know Gary and Niall have a few GPS tags and they use them when training (never racing). The GPS tag has the ability to tell you where the birds are, and potentially what's happened to it (depending on the readings) but it still offers you zero protection against the wires or BoP. Knowing you as I do I'd recommend you not getting GPS tags because it'll mess with your head.

So, you're a fancier (sprint based) that wants and feels that training brings the best out of your birds. Personally I've done it both ways. Before getting married in 2005 I'd train twice a week. After 2005 I didn't train at all because my time was more pressed. The end result was not much difference really - but if you offered me the choice I'd train.

So, to let go in one bunch or not?

Logically you could argue if you have 2 liberations then you double the chance of you getting hit by BoP. There's some merit in that.

On the flip side you could argue that by going in one bunch you're at an increased risk of getting birds in the wires and the fact that if your one kit gets hit by BoP then you've got absolute carnage on your hands because the birds will scatter

So, to me, I'd go in small groups rather than one.

You're dealing with competitors (wires and BoP) that you've zero control over - so manage the risk as best you can

[CHARLTON34]

Good points Mike will try in smaller group's & see if it's better to go this way with them, I did think about going a few stops about a mile apart to see if they can manage to come back untouched.

[MIL]

Another huge advantage of small groups is that more of the birds are having to do the brainwork and not just following

A follower is no good to anyone

These are the birds that are invariably late and offline come race day